Borrower Briefing: Borrower Best Practices - March 2023

Mike Langford:

Hi, everyone. Welcome to the March 2023 Borrower Briefing by SkyView Partners, where we will be exploring borrower best practices. My name is Mike Langford. I am the host of the Advisor Financing Forum podcast by SkyView, and today I'm joined by Aaron Hasler, a managing partner, a co-founder at SkyView, and Rob Perry, SkyView's Chief Financial Officer. As with our prior webinars, you can expect a vibrant and conversational experience today that is designed to make the topic of commercial lending for financial advisory businesses approachable for you and your team.

Now, before we get started, please remember to subscribe to the Advisor Financing Forum podcast on Apple Podcast, Spotify, Google Podcast, YouTube, or wherever you like to get your podcast jam on. We will be posting a recording of this webinar on those fees just in case you wanted to listen to it or watch it again.

And if you have questions about the topics covered in today's webinar or something more specific about your financing needs, please swing by skyview.com or call 866-567-6282, and the SkyView team will be happy to walk you through the options that are best for you and your business.

Okay, let's get to it. Great to see you, Aaron and Rob. Let's get it on.

Aaron Hasler:

Good to be here, Mike. Thanks for having us.

Rob Perry:

Thank you.

Mike Langford:

Fantastic, fantastic. No, listen, I was expecting a little more mockery from the two of you guys as you watch me read through that intro. Subpar, subpar on the mockery.

Aaron Hasler:

I'm too busy watching basketball.

Rob Perry:

Aaron's got it on March Madness.

Aaron Hasler:

March Madness Holiday, so we're kind of half paying attention to you the day, but...

Mike Langford:

That's right. We are recording during March Madness, and for the basketball junkies in the audience or people who just like to get into the bracket stuff and miserably fail by the end of day two or three or whatever-

Aaron Hasler:

It's the best working holiday. Everybody's in a better mood when March Madness is on, even if your bracket is busted already.

Mike Langford:

It is fantastic. I love it. I'm a hundred percent with you on that.

Okay, as I teed up at the beginning of the show, we are going to be talking about borrower best practices today. But listen, before we dive into the meat of this conversation, I thought it would be a good idea to spend just a couple of moments on the state of banking, as I'm sure many of the financial advisors in our audience have had to answer some questions of their own for their clients about, "Hey, what's going on in my portfolio? Do I have banking stocks? Am I doomed?" Or whatever.

But here, the context is a little different. How has the recent Silicon Valley Bank collapse and the other tremors we've seen in the banking industry in the past week or two affected your confidence in regional and community banks?

Aaron Hasler:

Rob, I'm going to make you the guinea pig on this. We'll let you say the outlandish statement, and then I'll either support or deny it.

Rob Perry:

Oh, really? I get to say the outlandish one.

Ultimately, confidence in regional banks hasn't faltered. Most of the banks across the board, Silicon Valley, Signature, First Republic, who seem to be the hardest hit in this current crisis, undertook some, we're going to call it, risk here, depository moves. Many of your regional and community banks don't take those. They're more steady Eddie across the board. That's something that we've seen. It's something that you can look into. Banks, similar to many other industries, you can get a fantastic look in either on the Federal Reserve website. These things are posted to the public. But the banks that we work with in our network, we have the utmost confidence and faith that they're going to skate right through this with no issues whatsoever.

Mike Langford:

Great. And how about you, Aaron?

Aaron Hasler:

Yeah, I would agree. It's funny. I just heard this morning on the radio, as I was driving into the office, the importance of community banks to the national ecosystem, and I think that's absolutely true. We look at it from our perspective, which is community banks have been the lifeblood for this business, and they've really allowed, they've been the ones that have taken the risk and taken the time to understand wealth management loans and the opportunity that financial advisors present to the marketplace. I agree with Rob. They tend to manage themselves more conservatively. Some of our banks are even just have different positions of cash balances. They don't take those same large business or large consumer deposits in the same way. We have a good confidence and a great partnership with our bank network, and we're excited to continue to move forward with them.

Mike Langford:

Fantastic. And like I said at the top, I think this is a really important thing to touch upon, because look, sometimes you see stuff in the news, and it invades your brain. And then you're just like, "Listen, I'm just going to stay away from banking for a while," or whatever.

Most banks, as you mentioned, they're conservative businesses. They're not out there taking these weird, crazy swings or looking to only do business with people who have venture capital funds to be deposited. I think most of the community banks or regional banks that you're dealing with or that our advisors will come in contact with are probably really, really secure places to be.

Aaron Hasler:

It's been a long time since we've felt like banks were threatened. I would agree. For the average American, the idea that a bank could fail is not even in your lexicon. It's always unsettling when you hear about it, but at the end of the day, it's, I think, business as usual.

Rob Perry:

And ultimately, this feels like it's relatively contained to a few actors within the industry. It hurts that it's one of the larger ones, but ultimately, I think everything will work itself out.

Mike Langford:

Perfect, perfect. Okay. Let's get on to the main event of borrower best practices, with that in our rear-view mirror now. Rob, during our prep call, you suggested that we use a framework of quantitative and qualitative practices for this conversation. Why is it important for advisors to have that framework in mind when approaching the process of borrowing money for their businesses?

Rob Perry:

Part of it is going to be what are you, as part of the relationship with your bank, expected to bring to the table? Again, it is a relationship. It's not treated as an ATM where, "Hey, I'm only here to pull money out."

Banks, especially regional and community banks are really invested in your business. They want to see you succeed as much as you do. That makes, obviously, their job a whole lot easier. But part of that too is understanding, "Hey, I'm agreeing to these terms, and I want you to stick to them." That's kind of a big thing in really just borrower relationship with their bank is, "Hey, is this person abiding by all the terms that we set out right at the beginning?"

Especially in most loan documents is you've got reporting requirements. That's your annual tax returns. That's personal financial statements. It's really not a whole lot of onerous work on the part of a borrower and advisor. It's stuff that you're already going to be generating, P&Ls. Your tax returns are the biggest thing. You're doing it for the government. Why not just tack on, hey, sending this to your bank, because they're going to come and ask you for it. If you get it ahead of time, that speaks volumes to how committed you are to this relation.

Mike Langford:

Right, right.

Oh, sorry, Aaron. You look like you had something to say.

Aaron Hasler:

No, I was going to say, I agree with Rob's comment about the bank is not the ATM. We work with a lot of borrowers that are either new to the borrowing game or have done a few loans, and I think they kind of look at the importance of their transaction, and they focus on the transaction that they're working on, because that's all consuming. When you put these wealth management deals together, you've spent 6, 10, 12 months working with that seller. Now the idea of putting banking together to finish this transaction seems like an inconvenience that you really don't want to deal with.

That's part of what we've tried to do at SkyView is say, "Okay, yes, we will interface, we'll advocate, and we'll work through that borrowing channel." But advisors do need to remember that they have to build the relationship as well, and they have to look at it just like they would look at it with their own client relationships. You have to look at the qualitative side in addition to the quantitative side, build up that relationship and that trust.

As Rob said, they're probably as vested, if not more vested than an advisor is on their own business success, because their livelihood depends on it as well. So it's a symbiotic relationship. If advisors look at it that way, as more of a collaborative partner, it does make a significant difference, I think. When there are times of stress, or when there are times of questions, or when you're putting together a unique deal structure that you want some potential leeway for the bank on, that's where we find it.

As these deals get more and more complex, as we've seen valuations continue to rise, what banks are wanting to do is understand this business. They aren't in it in the same way we are every day. We feel mired into this, so when we hear valuation, we're like, "Yeah, okay, I heard that six times yesterday." Well, the banker hasn't heard about that valuation. The last time he saw this was six months ago. The fact that that valuation may have risen or that you might be paying at or above market rate for a business, these are just things that take conversation and time to help the bankers understand.

Rob Perry:

Yeah. Aaron, you brought up a great point. On most of these deals, if you're looking to acquire, it's going to take that 6 to 12 month timeframe. During that time you're talking to your accountant, seeing how the taxes play out. You're talking to your attorney trying to figure out, "Hey, how does this actually work from a documentation standpoint?"

At that point, you should also be talking to your banker. "How am I funding this thing?" Even if you're doing it internally or through a seller note or whatnot, talking with a banker and trying to find that extra source of capital is really helpful.

We here at SkyView try and interface, and we always love to take questions. That's the big thing. Even if you don't want to ask your banker, we're more than happy to have that question being asked.

Mike Langford:

Yeah, yeah.

Aaron Hasler:

And I'll say it now while I'm thinking of it, one of the important things, and we talk to our borrowers about this all the time, is come to us early and come to us often, because as you are formulating that deal structure with a seller, the sooner you can come to us and start to formulate ideas and get that, the temperature of what a bank thinks about that particular deal structure, the better you are strategically. The idea that you can have conversations and understand what deal structure you might need, that's going to fulfill both your needs, the bank's needs, and the seller's needs, that makes it a lot easier than if you are going with a particular deal structure. You come late to the game with bank financing, and then the bank is asking questions about that particular deal structure.

We find we can usually collaborate with them and get things done exactly the way advisors want to do them. But that early education makes a difference, as you're messaging out to that seller.

Mike Langford:

Love it.

Aaron Hasler:

We find that people should even come to us as they're starting to think about deal structures, even if we're not going into bank financing yet. Come to us early. We'll have that conversation. We'll guide you in the right direction so that you can build the trust with that seller and steer them in the direction and a deal structure that is going to be bankable.

Mike Langford:

That's fantastic advice, and I love that. I think that's going to be a key cornerstone of some of the qualitative stuff we're going to be going over in a bit here.

But let's check the box, if we will, on some of the quantitative stuff, because I think many advisors, and I think I'm like this, a lot of us like to think of things like, "I've got this to-do list of things I got to check off. These are the deliverables to get through this process."

I love the fact that you teed this up. "Hey, it's not necessarily just a transactional process." It's going to be a relationship-based process as well here.

But let's tackle some of these quantitative things. If you had to give an advisor maybe a top five list of quantitative best practices, what would be on that list? Here's the things you need to make sure you're doing in order for this to run smoothly.

Rob Perry:

Some of it's a lot of just business basics. First thing, quarterly financials. That's typically what most banks want to see. It's just kind of a rolling, "Hey, how are you doing?" That helps you, as a business owner as well, understand, "Hey, where are we at right now versus where we're going in the future?" Just a very standard business practice.

Next thing, annual valuations. We highly recommend it. The market changes: up, down, left, right. If your business is growing, you may see greater appreciation than you truly expect. Not something that a lot of people have in their minds, but there are programs out there for that as well as just letting the bank know A, I talked about it earlier, tax returns. Big thing is, hey, if they're extended, let the bank know. "Hey, here's my extension paperwork." Okay, then they'll stop bothering you for the next six months until you get to October, and then you file.

But certain things like that, just your required reporting as well as, and this is always good, I think, for financial advisors as well, personal financial statement. Just understanding where you are at personally, that's a really, really big thing. Really kind of hard to get a lot of borrowers after the fact to understand, "Hey, you need to keep this updated relatively often. Every six months, year is always a really, really good idea."

One other quantitative thing that I think leads into qualitative factors is trying to set up an annual or maybe semi-annual meeting with your banker. "Hey, here's my pipeline. Here's what I'm looking for. What's on the horizon? What's the risk?" Could be a 15- 30-minute phone call, just really quick just to check in on that. And what you'll find is, again, your banker is invested in your business growing and doing well as well. They may offer either an outside viewpoint, an outside solution. Or you might find that, "Hey, I've got this other thing that's going on that might be a synergy with you. Maybe you go have a talk with them." It's another way to find other like-minded business owners as well as like-minded business tools.

Mike Langford:

I love that.

Aaron Hasler:

Rob's forgetting the most important aspect though, which is if your banker's in your local area, is make them take you out to lunch.

Rob Perry:

Make them take you out to lunch.

Aaron Hasler:

[inaudible 00:14:49] Relationship as well.

Mike Langford:

That's right. You're the customer here.

That's great. No, I love that. It's funny. One of the things that jumped out to me on that list of things, Rob, that you went through was your personal financial statements, making sure you have your personal picture, because most of these businesses, and correct me if I'm wrong, I think most of the ones who are coming in and doing business through SkyView are either solo operators, solo ownerships, or just a couple of business partners under one roof. So the bank is going to care about your personal financial wellbeing in these relationships, right?

Rob Perry:

Absolutely.

Aaron Hasler:

Well, it's so interesting because advisors are doing this for client meetings all the time. Client's coming in, and you're doing all of this prep. You're getting ready for your reporting. I think that you have to look at your banking relationship the same way, which is put alarms on your calendar. These are the things that I'm going to do on a quarterly basis, semi-annual basis, annual basis, and prep for it just like you would a client meeting.

If you go through that approach, I think it does make a difference, because if there are ever times of stress distress, or you just want favors out of your bank to get that next deal, those little things, that relationship-building over time does make a significant difference.

As Rob said, we were talking about this yesterday, the old days of banking, it was really a people business. Do I trust this person as much as it was the financials? We forget that in today's day and age. It seems more transactional, in part just because of the more digitized way we interact with people. But building that relationship is a significant difference maker when you need it.

Rob Perry:

Yeah, I always view it as it's easier to ask permission than it is to ask for forgiveness.

Mike Langford:

Yeah.

Rob Perry:

I believe the saying is the opposite, but-

Mike Langford:

The opposite of what I usually...

Rob Perry:

In banking-

Mike Langford:

Yeah, usually the opposite.

Yeah, all right. Well, you know what's funny? I want to touch on one more thing before we move off this topic here. During our prep call, Rob, you mentioned turning things in on time, being timely with things as a core component of your quantitative checklist there. For me, that feels like a no-brainer. It's like, "Oh, yeah, you turn your work in on time." Or you're looking for a loan, make sure you give them all the paperwork they need to get things done. But do you see somewhat of a common thing of this, advisors being human and running behind on some things and it delaying the deal?

Rob Perry:

Absolutely. And I would not say that it's advisor-specific or specific to the industry. It's just across the board. I think that's a really, really important thing, just for everybody to understand is even after your loan closes, there still are requirements. It's a heck a lot easier to get out in front of it than it is to try and have somebody from the bank calling you saying, "Hey, can we get this from you?" Especially if it's a couple months past. It's fairly easy. You're going to be doing it anyway, so just tack on another person to send it to.

Mike Langford:

Well, it's funny. That's a really important thing to keep in mind. We've talked about this before, Aaron, that most financial advisors, this is going to be the first time that they are looking for business lending, a business loan in their life. But most people operating in America have lots of personal loans. We've got a mortgage, we've got car payments, or maybe a credit card or whatever. We've dealt with that. The bank is not calling me to go, "Hey, Mike, just noticed we don't have a tax return for you for your mortgage." They don't care. They just want to make... If a payment comes, that's all they need to know about, right?

Aaron Hasler:

Yep. That is right, right.

One, bankers are in the business of going out and finding new things, new business. At the end of the day, if they have to spend less time following up on you on the basic details of it and more time just checking in with you, hearing about the business and moving on to the next project, I think they're as excited about that as you are. It is a symbiotic relationship from that standpoint.

Mike Langford:

Yeah. Fantastic. All right, so now let's tackle those qualitative best practices, or maybe the better title for this section is relationships matter. You've already mentioned it a couple of times, Aaron. Let's dive into that in a little bit more in depth.

I think many of the advisors in the audience are excited about the checklist. "Okay, what do I do today? Best practices, yada, yada, yada, yada." This is gotta be some of the soft skills stuff that they should be thinking about as they explore the banking relationship. Where should they start? What's the first relationship-building process to kick off here?

Aaron Hasler:

I'll use this example. I pulled a kid out of school a few weeks back to go on a ski trip. I'm saying to my high school freshman, "You're going to miss three days of school. If you tell your teachers ahead of time that you're going to be gone, be aware of the assignments that you have, and what you're going to miss, and is there anything that you need to do either in advance or when you return to do that?" So what does he do? Of course, he forgets on one of his classes, and he missed an opportunity to add in some extra credit on an exam because he was gone, and the teacher didn't give him any grace for it.

I think this is the same way in our business, which is you look at your banker a little bit like your high school teacher maybe. To Rob's point earlier, "Hey, these are the times when I do my financials. This is the time when I run my quarterly reports. This is the time when I do billing. I'm going to do billing on the third day after the quarter starts, so then my P&L is ready at the 30th day after the quarter starts." Being able to communicate when those timelines are and then really automate some of this, to say, "Hey, let me delegate this off to staff people. Maybe I delegate it off to my outside accountant." These are the alarms, and set that and let these automated services, take advantage of it, and you look like an absolute rockstar to your banker by doing those things.

Rob Perry:

Even beyond that, just understanding what's going on in your business. You're in it day to day. How do you encapsulate, "Hey, here's how we did last quarter. Here's how we did last six months. Here's how we did in the last year." Encapsulate that into, let's call it a little bit of your elevator pitch. In five minutes, tell me what's going on with your business.

I think this is a good thing for all business owners is understanding, "Okay, what risks am I running right now? And what risks am I looking forward to?" I think if you try and look at your business through that lens, you and your banker are going to see a lot of things eye to eye. Again, they're going to probably be leaning more towards the worst case scenario in any single scenario. But at the same time, hey, even if you're halfway to what that is, and you understand that risk, they're going to feel more comfort in that, in understanding, "Hey, I'm taking this risk of lending you all this money. I hope you understand the amount of risk that this is as well." Not to scare anybody from that, but bankers are always measuring things in risk and reward. And I think that's a really good way to also look at business.

Mike Langford:

Yeah. It's really interesting. It's kind of building on your example there with the ski trip, Aaron. I always tell my kids, "look, you can get an extra five points on your grade just by being the person who raises your hand and asks questions in class, actually participates in the classroom," because teachers are human beings. You like to think, "Oh, they're these omnipotent whatever."

No, the bankers are human. To what Rob was just describing there, like, hey, be proactive in your communication. Let them know here's what's happening.

I would even say little things, I would imagine. "Hey, we are going to be sponsoring this Little League team this year. Just thought I'd let you know, if you were ever swing by, watch us play."

Or if you have questions, you're like, "I don't even understand how this works." Raise your hand and ask the banker, "What's going on here? I want to get out in front of this."

Aaron Hasler:

And I think even tell them about your business. "These are the things we're working on." Hey, guess what? With all this banking turmoil, I tell my banker as a financial advisor, "These are the things that we're actually doing. We're communicating out to clients. We're talking to them about FDIC insurance and what their banking needs are and whether they need to make any adjustments." These times of market turmoil actually give us, as a financial advisor, an opportunity to reach out to our clients more, have deeper discussions, and end up getting more referrals. You can talk to your banker about that and say, "Hey, this is the inside baseball, if you will, of my business, and this is how things are working, and these are what the opportunities I see are in the marketplace," based on whatever is going on in the outside world.

I think those little anecdotal messages and the idea is the banker isn't going to understand your business, won't always understand every nuance of it, because they're not in it day to day. But the idea that you can educate them about our industry, not only, I think, does it make you a better borrower, but it also educates the general public about what wealth management does and how it works for its clients. This is a referral, people-based business. Most advisors grow organically by word-of-mouth referral and client education. Look at it as an opportunity to educate a client. It's a very similar type of process.

Rob Perry:

Yeah. It's an extra tool to use to gain that knowledge. Use that banker for, "Hey, what products are out there that would work in this scenario?" It allows you to speak more accurately and intelligently about banking products to your customers, which then puts you in a much better light.

Mike Langford:

Yeah, yeah. SkyView's in there too. We've talked a lot about talking with your bank, but one of the things you teed up earlier, Aaron, was talk to SkyView early in the process as well, because you are a conduit to a potential, eventual banking relationship that they may have, that they may not currently have. What do you advocate that they use you for in this process, in terms of the conversation that they're going to have?

Aaron Hasler:

Yeah, that's a great question. I think that's where we continue to stay in touch with our borrowers and do frequent check-ins. We want our borrowers and our clients to come to us, ask those questions. If you're not sure whether it's important for the bank, call us. We'll tell you what that strategy is. If you're unsure of information you should share or not share, reach out to us, and we can give you that education on it. Or if you want to have a conversation that you think is going to be difficult with your banker, call us, and we'll participate in that conversation with you.

We find, like everybody else, we have a lot of repeat customers. Advisors come back to us for second and third loans as they do more acquisitions and as they grow. We want to stay involved in their lives in the same way, and we want to be able to help them with any of their next business ventures. Frequent communication with us, we're always open and always interested in talking about this opportunity, about what's happening in the lending space and any questions that they might have that they're afraid to ask otherwise.

Rob Perry:

Additionally, we talked about how valuable it is to talk to your banker about what they're seeing in the market as well as educating them on your business. That's one bank that's seeing one thing. The benefit of us is we also have multiple banks that we're talking to at any given moment. Even beyond just trying to understand, hey, what's in market for financing or what are we seeing across the board?

Mike Langford:

Yeah.

Rob Perry:

We love to be that resource for you,

Mike Langford:

Yeah. That's a fantastic point that you're both making is that this isn't just a one-way street. There's this borrowing process, and there's other people involved here. The other side of the equation wants to see you be able to borrow money to build your business.

SkyView, as an example, is on a mission for advocating and educating independent financial advisors, RIAs, and the banks themselves on, "Hey, this is a great segment to be in here." It's a very collaborative ecosystem in that way.

I would imagine you suggest, since we have an audience of people for our webinar here, that people attend webinars like this, and then spend other time also on your website and so forth, going to skyview.com to learn more. What are some other resources that you suggest? Do they just pick up the phone and call you to learn? Or how's it work if they just have random questions, if they're early in the process?

Aaron Hasler:

Yeah, that's what we encourage. I think sometimes that's the most effective communication still. I don't know about you guys, email's not my favorite thing. Sometimes it's really easy to have a five-minute phone conversation than it has is to have a four-day email communication.

I would say that we have a really educated team here at SkyView. I think almost everyone you call into this business is going to be able to answer pretty intelligent questions fairly easily. We've been a tight unit, and we've had the same team since our inception. We've all kind of grown in this business together.

That's exactly what we say is, "Call us." We have a lot of ideas. We see a lot of different deal structures. We communicate with all of these banks, so call us and ask questions. It's a fun way, and we enjoy engaging with advisors. We enjoy learning about their businesses, and we like learning about what's happening out there in the current space. What are the roadblocks advisors are running into? What are the best practices to how to work around some of those topics, if you're trying to convince a seller to commit to you, or if you want to message it a certain way? We have a lot of information, and sometimes just scheduling, going through the website and scheduling a call with one of us is a great and effective way to do so.

Rob Perry:

I would like to add, just as we talked about, hey, having that conversation with your banker. If you don't feel like you can do that in your current banking relationship, or you may not even know who your banker is right now, we'd love to get you with banks who are interested in working in this space, that have some knowledge of how advisory practices work, can hopefully get you on the right path to either acquiring or whatever your financing needs are.

Aaron Hasler:

Well, Rob touches on a point, which I think most advisors have worked with, is I think in the past, advisors have gone to their local regional community banks and tried to explain their business and what they're doing from an acquisition project. They've spent months if not longer, trying to get in front of the finance committee to help fund their project.

What we've been able to do is create an ecosystem and an education process for banks. To advisors' credit, they have not historically had good relationships with bankers, but we have fixed that. Banks do have an appetite for this business. There's tremendous opportunity in our space. We look at the track record of these wealth management firms, and it continues to really be astounding as to the flexibility that we have in different market conditions and the stickiness that these businesses have or the grittiness. There are a lot of banks that are very interested in working with financial advisors. Reaching out to us will help you connect on those.

Mike Langford:

Well, and I actually think that's a great way to wrap this up and bring this conversation full circle from the beginning. There's been a lot of talk in the market currently about bank customers and investors looking for a flight to quality. As we've been discussing here, here's the thing. Banks are likely looking for their own flight to quality opportunities. As financial advisors are looking to borrow, you may have the opportunity to be that quality landing spot for the bank. Banks want to lend to quality borrowers who have stable businesses, recurring revenue, relatively low volatility in their business or risk of default. That's one of their best practices, I guess.

To wrap it up with the two of you, what is your, I guess, one key piece of advice for advisors who want to ensure they present their business as the highest quality opportunity for lenders?

Aaron Hasler:

I'll say it. Let SkyView you to do the work. We really know what we're doing as far as how to present this. We obviously have spent the last five-and-a half years communicating with these banks, understanding how they look at these businesses, and we do that and interface with that on a daily basis. That is why we function as a company is we are here to interact with and understand both businesses. We all have wealth management industry background, so we really understand the wealth management industry. I always joke, I'm still new to banking. I feel like I learn things every day. But what we want to do is be that conduit. Communicate and let us package that up and do the work. We've had very effective results by doing that.

Mike Langford:

How about you, Rob? One last parting thought.

Rob Perry:

I think just it's all relationship-based. Aaron had talked about it earlier. Banking has gone away from that with, "Hey, what are your metrics?" and whatnot. I think a really good way to put yourself forward is understand that even starting a banking relationship is part of a negotiation. You're not going to come in hot and say, "I demand this, this, and this." It's working together to reach that mutual goal, again, remembering that they want you to succeed as much as we do.

Mike Langford:

Fantastic. Well, that's a perfect way for us to wrap it up. Well, thank you very much for joining us today for this Borrower Briefing session. Aaron and Rob, you were both fantastic, one of you a little more fantastic than the other, and I'll let you guys duke that out. We'll figure out-

Rob Perry:

[inaudible 00:32:47]

Aaron Hasler:

[inaudible 00:32:48] superior to his. I think he had Arizona going deep in the tournament. I'm in good shape in this competition.

Rob Perry:

One more task

Aaron Hasler:

I think, go Big Ten.

Mike Langford:

Fantastic, fantastic. Well, thank you both for sharing your insights with us today.

Okay, before you go, please make sure you swing by skyview.com to learn more about the lending process and options for your business. And if you have any questions, simply call, like Aaron said, 866- 567-6282, and a member of the team will be happy to provide you with all the help you need.

Thank you all. Have a great day.